On the other hand, if you find no foreign stuff, ensure you purge the air out of the system. Navien NaviCirc Recirculation Valve Description How it works Specifications Dimensions if your water heater has 4 connections (CW in; HW out; condensate; gas) then the recirculation occurs within the water heater - IMO don't see the benefit in this setup as the water in the HW distribution system doesn't see flow . Power Waste We dont. SEER = (1 EER100% + 42 EER75% + 45 EER50% + 12 EER25%)/100, Total Heat (BTU/hr.) Also, check the feeder valve and pressure relief valves activity. There are several ways to do it. Do you want to know the details? The average electric tankless water heater needs at least 120 amps to work. You will see in the photo that the cold water valve shuts off water into the domestic water inlet but doesn't have a shut off into the circulation water inlet. if your water heater has 5 connections ( CW in; HW out; Recirc in; condensate ; gas) then the recirculation is coming backing to the water heater. Remove the front cover of the water heater. "The recirculating pump costs about the same as operating a 25-watt light bulb," says Umberto Griccino, a commercial plumber and HouseGrail consultant. If yes, clean them. However, the plumber branched this off into the circulation water inlet. Flush the vinegar out of your water heaters. First, place a " thick rubber between the pump and anything it will be mounted on. If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. The filter is located at the top left of the water heater. Here are some simple instructions on how to turn on your Navien tankless water heater. Correcting Navien Tankless Hot Water Heater Installation, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup, Tankless water heater - not consistent hot water output, Plumbing Manifold Use With a Tankless Hot Water Heater, No hot water if hot water recirculator pump is shut off, warm water only when we replaced the hot water heater with a tankless heater. Change the thermistor if needed. Great article!! Navien ComfortFlow is the first and only system that incorporates a built-in insulated buffer tank and recirculation pump. The cold water pipe coming from the wall goes into the domestic water inlet on the tankless heater, as it should. It may not display this or other websites correctly. = heat loss from the circulation system [kW] Sold by HVAC Pros and ships from Amazon Fulfillment. What video game is Charlie playing in Poker Face S01E07? Where does this (supposedly) Gibson quote come from? Overusing your recirculating pump also increases your electricity bill. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. For most existing homeowners, integrating a recirculating home pump comfort system on top of the existing piping makes much more sense: Heres why this is the most popular type of hot water recirculating pump in homes: You use the existing water pipe alone. (+ Calculator), 5 Best Air Purifiers For Allergies In 2023 (+ H13 Medical-Grade HEPA Filters), Is A Tankless Water Heater Worth It? If you fail to stop the noise after trying all the steps I mentioned, I bet there is a complex problem with the unit. Worst case is your plumber might have to call since they require them to maintain it. It is located on the lowest corner opposite the on and off button. I am having issues with it ever since: water to certain places in my house seems to just stay warm (kitchen sink and master bathroom) unless I fully open the faucet all the way on hotand then still I have to wait a minute plus for the water to heat up. Once the tank is thoroughly drained, clean the base of the heater. Next, hook hoses to the valves, then open them to drain the water. For moving the pump to another sink, you would have to talk with a plumber. It looks like you're using an ad blocker. Foreign materials like small pebbles may get into the recirculation pump. T = the water cooling, normally 5 C determined at the farthest consumption point [C]. I think it's 100F. You can return the item for any reason in new and unused condition: no shipping charges ; I used a razor and carefully pried each side of the RM11 open to reach the programming switch. Then, turn it on again. Turns out, make sure you isolate the recirculation pump from the vibration. The upfront cost is a major deterrent when deciding if it makes sense to install a circulation pump or not. The large valves should be in the off position, whereas the service valves should be in the on place. Parts that will actually be used depend on what kind of hot water recirculation pump you have. Press the + (Up) or (Down) buttons until the desired temperature appears on display. You can adjust the temperature while the display is flashing. Turns out, make sure you isolate the recirculation pump from the vibration. Turn off the electrical supply to the pump Locate the small bleed screw on the pump Remember the pump is full of water, so place the cloth underneath the screw Turn the screw very slowly (less than a quarter turn is usually enough) to allow any air to escape Tighten the screw Mop up any excess water Turn the electrical supply back on It should come out of the hot water port. 3. Navien NPE-240s with external recirculating pump. The recirculation pump will make a squeaking noise if the installer fails to install the primary loop correctly. When you turn on the shower or a faucet, do you get hot water instantly? To create an energy-efficient full recirculation system, your pump has to come with these two efficiency optimizing parts. With two pipes, you can create a loop between the water heater and faucets. Did you mount the contact switch next to the Navien? Then turn on the heater and then your pump. It is affordable and can easily fix your problem. This may temporarily help to remedy the issue. It means there is some issue with the flow sensor or switch. Now, that comes to the question, can I turn off my hot water recirculating pump? The number of bathrooms, tubs, dishwashers, and washers. When its time to work with a recirculating pump, you should follow some instructions to avoid further hassles. It will make your water recirculating pump much smarter. This is known as recirculating home pump comfort system (Type #2) and its the most popular way to get hot water quickly. If we take that the average price of water is $0.18/gallon (according to Statistas 2019 study), heres how much you can save on water with a recirculation pump: Water Savings = 2,920 gallons/year * $0.18/gallon = $525.60/year. I have 5 connections including the recirculation in. Grundfos water recirculation pump may troubleshoot, Grundfos circulating pump is making sounds, Easy DIY Media Cabinet Build with Basic Tools, From Cast-Iron to Stainless-Steel: How to Replace Your Kitchen Sink, While theres no water in the pump, do not turn on the recirculating pump. Dont hesitate to switch the tees around if you get them backward. Turns out that it was the temperature of the return water was high enough to stop the recirculation. This time of year, we dont need to have instant hot water circulating so we turned off the pump. To remedy this, you can take the two clamps off the sensor, pull it out and clean it. . It provides information about the problem with the fan motor. Having a tankless water heater is an energy-efficient way of getting hot water. Once again, there are a few different things it could be. Where is the 2 internal drain valve in Navien 240a tankless water heater (damaged needs replacement), Shower gradually cools, gets hotter when sink is on. First, find the control panel on the front of the unit. A place for plumbing advice and help. Locate the power button and press it to turn on the heater. To install a full recirculating pump system, you need to consult with a plumber because you will need an extra pipe. Why Its Important To Turn Off The Water Recirculating Pump? This unit doesnt have dip switches as far as I undersrand. Make sure to follow the instructions before and after you turn off the pump. This depends on how long you leave it on and how often you use it. If your system is re-circed as close as possible to the fixtures (ask yourself do I have two hot waterlines for each fixture?) If enabled you would find that your hot water is ready to go almost anytime you need it, without a long wait. If you look at the instructions, which tech support emailed to me, there is a Signal 1 input for 12 or 5V devices including remote controls or motion sensors BTW the other remote was sold out. Years of experience in the HVAC field have taught him many lessons, not the least of which is that the value of quality and knowledge far exceeds any promised initial savings. Then, use the arrows to set the desired temperature. However, this is only a temporary fix. But, yes, I understand why it seems feasible for the sediment to eventually enter the water flow and cause the change in taste of water. Is there the same solution for NR240A? Not only that, by now you should know how to turn it off and why its important to do so. We have to keep the valve on and slowly hot water comes out. Lets outline them here: To determine if installing a hot water recirculation pump makes sense for your situation, we have to check the pros and cons. However, whenever I turn on the cold water at the kitchen sink for a few seconds the tankless unit starts to run (heat water) even though I dont want heated water. My pipes arent big enough 2. Also you need not be concerned about pump damage. This happens when you have a huge heater and lower gas output. Continue with Recommended Cookies. Press the M (menu) button on the front panel and choose the 1. Actually the only real issue is the lack of isolation valve on the recirculation connection, resulting in the constant water supply to the water heater. 5.0 out of 5 stars 3 ratings. Now, when installed, the recirculating pump makes it seem that the hot water starts flowing right away like magic. What effect does this have on gas usage for instant hot water? FREE Returns . I have the newest version pcb since I just bought the tankless. my understanding of the Navien with internal recirc pump is that they work with either an external dedicated return pipe or an internal bypass loop located within the water heater cabinet. We and our partners use data for Personalised ads and content, ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. How do hot water recirculation pumps work to get hot water fast? Ensure the recirculation pump was installed correctly. Lets start by looking at how these pumps actually work: If it takes forever for the hot water to start running, it usually means that there is a long pipe between a boiler (or a hot water heater or tankless water heater) and the faucet. The cold water inlet one thermistor is defective. Make sure there are no loose connections. The air will need to be bled out of the system. Remove and clean the cold air intake filter. Not sure I am understanding. Costs associated with hot water circulation pumps (parts + installation + DIY savings). I was under impression that with the recirculation pump this wouldnt be an issue (the wait time) and the fact that the water is just warm otherwise feels wrong. However, the hot water had to travel from your water heater to the faucet for you to use. The whole point of installing such a pump is to get hot water fast. Here is the summary of all the negative aspects of hot water circulation pumps: This is the key question. It is brand new in the original Navien factory packaging and is guaranteed to fit and function properly. It only takes a minute to sign up. These are the kinds of issues that can occur if you aren't aware of the automatic appliances that are connected to your system (and don't shut them off along with the water). Examine the wiring and thermistors condition. Its a piece of cake to bleed the air out of your Navien recirculation pump. How can this new ban on drag possibly be considered constitutional? Do we keep the flames on after cooking? How To Turn Off A Water Recirculating Pump? It has a timer that turns on the pump at regular intervals, mostly during peak usage times. Is this correct for the function of the system? rev2023.3.3.43278. Typically recirc lines connect at the furthest fixture and allows hot water to flow through the main trunk lines. Make sure the electrical cord is grounded. However, if you want hot water fast, these on-demand heaters are not ideal. Inspect the water feeder valve, water pressure, and water pressure relief valve. It depends on how the recirculation pump is installed, and some other factors, plumbers usually know this stuff pretty well. So, hire a professional to deal with the issue. It is important to note that recirculation pumps dont work continuously; they are used only when we open and close the faucet. Or invest in a larger water heater. When building a house, its smart to think about hot water recirculation as well. The only place that quickly gets hot (and really hot) is the guest bath which happens to be right next to the water heater. Examine and confirm the pressure sensor and wiring are in good condition. If a hot water faucet is open, you can adjust the temperature only from 98-110 F (37-43 C). You can contact a plumber if necessary. If you add a powerful hot water circulation pump at the heater (not under the sink), the hot water will reach the faucet much faster. Then descale a flush the heater following the steps listed below. This comprehensive guide helps to make the operation and repair of your heater easier. If the problem persists, call a technician to fix the unit. Rather than using the hard wired door bell style push button that comes with the kit, I bought this remote control unit (. Hope this illustrates well why this might be occurring; its a pretty standard thing. If the external recirc is set up without this it will just run, defeating the purpose of hot water on demand. Lets look at the individual parts that make up the recirculation pump for hot water: If you want to install a recirculation pump, you start by getting the whole recirculating pump kit. Your question, can I turn off my hot water pump? has been answered. I have a tankless water heater with an external recirculating pump at the heater and a crossover valve under the kitchen sink. Navien has an aftermarket add on hot point or something that lets you control when the recirc is on. After using this amount of time, hardware gets old and starts to malfunction. Neither reason is likely to be correct but we would need a much more in depth knowledge of the hot water distribution system and the circulation line in particular. Close the isolation valves to the cold-supply and recirculation lines. Solutions like- unplugging it, using a timer and using wifi sockets are convenient. Also, turn off the water heater, and recirculate the pump. Do the plumbers explanations make any sense at all or does it sound like BS? The 3/4-inch pipe thread connectors are used to connect the pump to your existing pipes. The issue is most likely, the flow sensor inside the unit is not spinning correctly. Side question: are you able to explain to me what always on means? That means that the cold water is not actually cold; it will usually be slightly warm (at room temperature). Free returns are available for the shipping address you chose. The total amount of water needed is 2 gallons + 1.5 gallons + (3 gallons * length of shower). JavaScript is disabled. So, get 2 braided ss flex connectors and install them on the inlet and the outlet of the pump. We turn it off because it will waste gas. However, some gas needs to be used to heat water for the pump to circulate; the gas usage for this is pretty much insignificant relative to how much gas we use when powering the instant hot water heater. Get a sump pump and connect the cold service hose to the sump pump. Hi Christopher, not really. Turn off the unit and check the valve's wiring and condition. Ask Your Own HVAC Question b55db6.jpeg 6a7761.jpeg ee4ed0.jpeg cc7ba2.jpeg 8ec6a3.jpeg 32aa59.jpeg Hi: It is caused by an open or shorted air pressure sensor. What I imagined would happen is 3-4 seconds of cold and then super hot water that was just waiting for me from the recirculation. Another sign is the error code display. We and our partners use cookies to Store and/or access information on a device. The heating supply thermistor is defective. We have 6 Navien NR-210A manuals available for free PDF download: Service Manual, Operation & Installation Manual, Installation Manual, Owner's Operation Manual, Quick Installation Manual Navien NR-210A Service Manual (179 pages) NR/NP Series Tankless Gas Water Heater Brand: Navien | Category: Water Heater | Size: 21.79 MB Table of Contents I have a clog, When the faucet is on the unit is indicating flow rate of 1.4 GPM which seems plenty and the recirculation mode is set to external & always on. They are not without upfront costs or disadvantages, but they do offer the luxury of having hot water almost instantaneously and they save you a lot of water. Quite surprisingly for most homeowners, the biggest problem with this type of recirculation pump is getting cold water. I am guessing that he only returned the HOT line, hence the delayed time in "INSTANT HOT", as the Naviens are sold as well as there 96% efficiency!! Ask an Expert Home Improvement Questions HVAC Questions Navien NPE-240s with external recirculating pump. The circulation return needs to come from a loop at an end of the hot supply line. However, the plumber branched this off into the circulation water inlet. Patrick. Cookie Notice sounds like you need a different plumber to assess your situation. What parts does a home water recirculation pump include, and where to install it. Purchase and install a rocker switch or "doorbell" style buttons to activate the NRCR "on-demand" mode to prime the pump for use only when you want it. You have to inspect the sensors connectors to confirm they are not wet and fixed correctly. Both options use less energy than a continuously-running system. Now, you have to know the hows for reducing damage. Does anyone know the logic behind how Navien controls their internal recirculation pump when it is circulating with an external loop? When I hooked hoses to the service pipes, the system still produced a strong, steady flow of water, seeming to not drain. Reassemble the heater and turn on the hot and cold water valves. It's unfortunate he's not around to explain all this to you. How do I align things in the following tabular environment? Question: How is a water recirculating pump eco-friendly?Answer: The basic reason is, water recirculating pumps save water. What kind of range do you get from the remotes? Also, check if the electrical cord is grounded correctly or not. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. Is it possible to create a concave light? Here are the leading causes of strange noises coming from your heater; Hire a professional or installer to repair your heater to avoid damaging the heater and voiding your warranty. As well as any future additions, Usage of household gadgets that require hot water, Automatic dishwasher 14 gallons or 1.5 GPM, Washing machine 32 gallons to wash the clothes or 2 GPM. Get in touch with Navien technical support or a professional heater repairman. $257.16. We have some suggestions for you if you want to buy the best wifi sockets. Make sure the major electrical cord is grounded correctly. Yes, you can turn off your hot water recirculating pump. The temperature sensor, on the other hand, makes sure you dont needlessly use too much energy to heat the water. This extra pipe is installed parallel to conventional piping. In compliance with California's . You can crack open the manual for your tankless heater and check if it comes with that option. where does the recirc line tie come off the hot lines? Some sort of noise out of your Navien recirculation pump is normal. Get it as soon as Wednesday, Mar 1. Hello Irving, Trutankless is an Arizona-based brand of tankless water heaters with built-in recirculation pumps. There are no error codes showing. With the NRCR you can set your own schedule with a remote accessory and tailor the integrated pump to your lifestyle or scheduled needs. The cost of a separate recirculation pump would fall in the range of $200 and $500, depending on the size required. I have a new Noritz tankless water heater that includes an AquaMotion recirculating pump at the heater and a crossover valve under the kitchen sink. Reinsert the filter into the plastic assembly. Circulation pumps can wreck havoc on your lines if you run them constantly due to friction at bends causing pinhole leaks. Thats why turning off your pump is important when youre not using it. We do all the time-consuming research and testing for you. When attempting a flush of the system, I shut off the hot and cold valves that lead into the heater. How Does A Hot Water Recirculation Pump Work? Most importantly, the installer fails to mount the pump on the vibration isolators. Hello Frank, one of the disadvantages of recirculating pumps is that you have to wait for cold water a bit. The major difference with hot water pumps in new homes is that you can install a full recirculation pump system (Type #1). Check to see if the water valves are open. This is the system you can see in the photos above. Yes, you can turn it off by yourself. here are some problems that you may have to deal with in the future or have experienced already primarily found in older Navien heater models; Though not a common occurrence, it is still essential to know how to identify these issues. Can you turn it off in a tankless that has it built in? Check the wiring and cold water inlet two thermistors and make sure both are in good condition. Also, did you wire the PB from the Hot Button kit or only use the remote? Most of information is available in the install manual but some of it requires a phone call to Navien support. These processes are so easy that you can even install a water recirculating pump by yourself! When we dont have to use it, why keep it on? It can also damage your main water heater and can create recirculation problems. So, there is such a thing. This number indicates that the water pressure is high. To calculate the size of the heater, you will need to add up the amount of water required at a particular time. You can turn off the recirculating pump in various ways. Disconnect the power supply to the water heater. The pump saves this cold water and recirculates it in the hot water. They are not without upfront costs or disadvantages. We don't tend to provide any plumbing advice or any advice that should come from a certified professional. The Navien is smart enough to stop recirculation when it recognises hot water has made the entire loop. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. What is more, you can, by these estimates, reduce the future water bill considerably and actually profit nicely just by not needlessly waiting for water when youre waiting for the hot water to kick in. Just one Navien water heater manual for all NPE-A and NPE-S units. Solar panels, wiring, old TVs and sometimes DIY powerwalls. There are special tankless water heater recirculation pumps for Navien, Rinnai, and Rheem units; we will cover them all. The remote control module sits beside this area (I have it floating but I'll put double stick tape and mount it to the interior soon) and the antenna lead drops through a grommet (conveniently already available at the bottom of the unit near the pcb) to the outside. These are the 3 most often recommended brands for tankless water heaters with recirculation pumps. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. Is the cable harness compatible? Is this noise normal coming from my Navien tankless heater? In large systems, however, it may be advantageous to use controlled pumps to enable adjustment of the flow when starting up the system and to be able to apply temperature control. Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain. Therefore most homeowners try to cut down costs wherever possible, bypassing the recommended installation procedure. At the same time, someone is in the kitchen doing the dishes. The only problem you have is there is no check valves in place check valves or like stop signs that direct traffic check valves, direct to flow of water. Turn off the device and examine the APSs condition. Well, If you overuse your pump, it will start malfunctioning. Without the need for extra piping, this type of hot water circulation pump system also comes at a much lower cost. Sure there is likely some distance between the recirculation line and the fixture which should me some time till hot water reaches. Then remove the cold water filter off located next to the cold water isolation valve. And the heater has been set to recirculation mode. I recently had a 240A2 installed. I recall it was p23 but it was definitely larger than p20. That install is exactly as specified in the newer manuals. Why isn't my Navien tankless water heater performing as it should? Theoretically Correct vs Practical Notation. 1. Watt recirculating pump installed on the water heater (pump plugged into standard 110/120V outlet, 3/4-inch pipe thread connectors, valve). The short answer is no, your water will still be pure. Let the vinegar cycle through the cold side for 45 minutes. Check to see if the warranty is still valid and contact the manufacturer. In fact, with a tankless water heater, you face double trouble (thats why youre not getting hot water fast): Because we need to wait longer for hot water in the case of tankless water heaters vs. traditional water heaters, it makes sense to minimize that time in tankless heaters even more. Obviously, everybody loves immediate hot water from their faucets but this luxury can be quite expensive. We can go from there with up to 3 hours of dedicated live coaching on the telephone if needed. Does It Save Money? If that fails, then the pump impeller might have disintegrated or the system water pressure may be below 0 at the pump suction causing the pump to cavitate. It shows that the heating return thermistor is not working correctly. Therefore, when it malfunctions, it is a sign that the heater has another major underlying issue. It tells you about the improper operation of the flow sensor. There is a circulator pump, but it still takes a long time for hot water to reach the upstairs bathrooms. Perhaps not everyone is familiar with the newer manual. All in all, its important to understand that recirculation pumps are worth the money. Place a bucket underneath it to catch any water that drains when you remove the filter. So, ensure you purge the air out of the recirculation pump to operate the unit quietly. Both of those spots are problematic though. The consent submitted will only be used for data processing originating from this website. Turning off the water recirculating pump isnt a big deal. I bought the remote PB you referenced above and the specs on it say it uses 12 VDC, but I couldn't find anywhere whether the 12 V supplied by the Navien board is either AC or DC. Error Code E438 It means the circulation pump is not working correctly. We have one faucet in the kitchen that has instant scalding hot water the second you turn it on . Follow the steps below to clean your Navien water heater; Note: If you are unsure of your ability to handle this task, hire a professional to clean the heater. Allow it to dry for some time before fixing it again. Similarly, if the return from the loops is mixing with the boiler loop system and cooling off the water before it gets sent to the recirculation pump, you will face this problem. Turn off your main water valve if you are going on vacation. However, if it generates annoying or buzzing noise, there is something wrong with the system. This error informs you there is something wrong while you reset the unit. The disadvantages of recirculating pumps include waiting for cold waters (its a less-known disadvantage), having to install additional wiring, and so on. There are filters that prevent the sediment from entering the water flow. Solutions like- unplugging it, using a timer and using wifi sockets are convenient. Close the cold and hot water inlet valves and then drain the water heater. The E615 tells you about the irregularity in input and memory. The heater turns off automatically when the flue pipe surpasses 149 degrees Fahrenheit. Press the Power button on the front panel to turn off the water heater. You can replace the sensor if needed. The function of a recirculating pump is to ensure that hot water is always available as close to the consumption point as possible, in order to reduce water waste and to increase comfort.
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